pathetic piss kitten (@kitten)

pathetic piss kitten @kitten@elizabeth.cat

wie sieht neutral Pronomen aus auf Deutsch?

Vera [8598492] old and unimproved @mpk@gts.apicrim.es

@kitten ha, ähhh, gibt es nicht. Naja, es gibt es/dessen aber das ist eigentlich ein Pronomen für Gegenstände und daher nicht für alle passend.

pathetic piss kitten @kitten@elizabeth.cat

@mpk :neocat_think: that's how I perceived it, yeah... sad though :neocat_sad:

Vera [8598492] old and unimproved @mpk@gts.apicrim.es

@kitten also every noun is gendered and stuff like occupations use different words depending on gender, like actor/actress in english

There are a few differnt approaches to deal with this, a common one is to turn nouns into a prticiple form e.g. "Studenten/Studentinnen" becomes "Studierende". This doesn't work for everything.
Another approach is to use a * or _ like Student*innen, which can be harder to use in spoken word but works almost everywhere.
The last one is pretty cool but it hasn't found widespread use yet, it's to put a y at the end of the root of the word, "Student/Studentin" becomes "Studenty"

Vera [8598492] old and unimproved @mpk@gts.apicrim.es

@kitten (is it obvious that it got confronted with/started thinking about this stuff in university, considering that it's using "(university) student" as an example word?)

pathetic piss kitten @kitten@elizabeth.cat

@mpk (confronted by someone else?)

Vera [8598492] old and unimproved @mpk@gts.apicrim.es

@kitten it was more that it was an active topic of conversation unlike in its previous social circles

pathetic piss kitten @kitten@elizabeth.cat

@mpk oh wow, I see, the asterisk/underscore one looks pretty interesting (although yeah, only for written communication)

but yeah I guess it'll keep being a bit of a mess until one form becomes the standard

Vera [8598492] old and unimproved @mpk@gts.apicrim.es

@kitten that's the one the german language pedants are railing against the most

Der Schrank @der_schrank@biplus.social

@kitten Es gibt noch kein offizielles, aber man nutzt

dey

pathetic piss kitten @kitten@elizabeth.cat

@der_schrank oh? dey?

Der Schrank @der_schrank@biplus.social

@kitten Ja.

dey/deren

der, die, das, dey

pathetic piss kitten @kitten@elizabeth.cat

@der_schrank interessant :neocat_think:

Der Schrank @der_schrank@biplus.social

@kitten dey gesprochen wie das englische they nur mit d

sam

@sam@gts.bodged.systems

@kitten
firstname “Sam kocht etwas” instead of “Sie kocht etwas” or use “the person” (i.e. “die Person kocht etwas”)
or just switch to English

e @ember@blahaj.zone

@kitten i usually say [name] or "die Person" (with feminine pronouns because "die Person" is feminine) and avoid pronouns as much as possible

Mira Jin @mira@purrple.place

@kitten Ist sehr personenabhängig^^"
Ich verwende zum Beispiel es/ihr, wenn ich eher Richtung agender tendiere.

Beispielsätze:
Es ist allein zu hause. Das ist ihr Computer.

Aber das kann bei anderen Menschen schon wieder anders aussehen

pathetic piss kitten @kitten@elizabeth.cat

@mira :neocat_think: ich verstehe... danke

Fiona @airtower@woem.men

@kitten „Es“, wie „it“ auf Englisch. So was wie singular they gibt es leider nicht.

Fiona @airtower@woem.men

@kitten Also „es“ (wie „it“) nicht für Personen mit unbekannten Pronomen verwenden.

pathetic piss kitten @kitten@elizabeth.cat

@airtower oh, true, thanks

I assume you just use masculine forms when you're referring to someone whose gender has not been referenced?

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Fiona @airtower@woem.men

@kitten That is the textbook version, yes („generisches Maskulinum“).

An increasingly used (and hated by conservatives & those further right) solution is to connect the base form and gendered ending with an asterisk, e.g. „Ingenieur*in“ (engineer). There are other variants, but so far none has become broad consensus and standard language yet.

Some people use that for pronouns, too („ein*e“), and there's the option of phrasing things to mostly avoid pronouns.

Fiona @airtower@woem.men

@kitten Wait „ein*e“ would be an article, not pronoun, but the same principle.

Lis (≙) retired account @lis@luisa.is

@airtower @kitten in many cases you can avoid gendered language with a bit of skill, but that takes effort even for native speakers and often relies on neutral plural forms (you can say “Studierende” - derived from the verb studieren, “those who study” - instead of “Studenten” (generic masculine plural) or “Student*innen”)

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Lis (≙) retired account @lis@luisa.is

@airtower @kitten this particular approach only avoids the generic masculine plural for mixed groups, it doesn’t work for a single person of undetermined gender

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Lis (≙) retired account @lis@luisa.is

@airtower @kitten there is also a very light-hearted approach popularized years ago by an Austrian artist, writer, and gay rights activist who became famous with kink-centered performance art: using -y. So instead of Präsident or Präsidentin, it would be Präsidenty, Ärzty, Autofahry. That also works for singular forms, but it's a bit silly and rather uncommon^^

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Fiona @airtower@woem.men

@lis @kitten Has the advantage of simple neutral plural forms though, just attach -s!

Lis (≙) retired account @lis@luisa.is

@airtower @lis @kitten unfortunately the German-speaking world is currently flooded with the entire political right trying to ban gender-neutral language under the premise of “free speech”, so the necessary processes to find a social consensus on how to solve this issue won’t take place any time soon

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Fiona @airtower@woem.men

@lis @kitten I'd say those bans (or attempts) are an attempt to stop the already ongoing process, but yes, it'll probably take a while to reach something resembling consensus…

Xayo @xayomer@kif.rocks

@airtower @kitten regarding the other variants …

there is also the even less formal option used in some bubbles — replacing the suffix with y:
Ärzty, Ingenieury, Kollegy, …

And of course one could try to use/find (formally correct) neutral forms, even if that can be difficult sometimes (and often takes the path of describing a role or what a person is doing, which can bring other problems):
Lehrkraft, Studierende, Fahrgast, Mitarbeitende, …

german (linguistic) gender is a mess!

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Illi A. Heger @illiannaheger@chaos.social

@airtower @kitten es gibt Leute die es für sich verwenden aber auch sehr viele die es als Alternative für er und sie ablehnen

es gibt eine Vielzahl unterschiedlich verbreiteter dt. Neopronomen, die ersten sind um 2009 aufgetaucht, was Medien angeht sind derzeit xier/xies, dey/deren, sier/sies und als Anglizismus they/their am häufigsten (hab Beispiele und Links falls wer will)

Grosse Übersicht auf nibi.space/pronomen

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